As organizations increasingly recognize the power of customer advocacy in driving growth and deepening customer relationships, the Voice of the Customer (VoC) has emerged as a cornerstone of successful marketing strategies.
To explore this critical aspect of customer engagement, I had the pleasure of hosting an enlightening conversation with two industry leaders who have been at the forefront of shaping customer advocacy:
- Deena Zenyk, Co-Founder and Chief Client Officer at Captivate Collective
- Liz Richardson, Co-Founder & Chief Revenue Officer at Captivate Collective
Through this article, you’ll discover how VoC can transform your approach to customer advocacy, the pitfalls to avoid, and the strategic shifts expected in the future.
Join us as we unpack the critical components of VoC and customer advocacy, and learn how to harness these powerful tools to create stronger, more meaningful connections with your customers.
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Eve Chatfield
The journey to customer advocacy
I asked my guests about their journey to their current roles.
Liz Richardson shared that her entry into the field of customer advocacy wasn't a direct one. "Our origins are not just stepping into customer marketing or advocacy," Liz explained. "They’re more of a roundabout way."
Her transition into technology was serendipitous. "I had a sister who was working at a tech startup, and I joined there," Liz recounted. Her first foray into marketing was managing Google Ads for the startup, despite having no prior experience. This experience sparked her interest in marketing, and she began exploring other areas, including social media for B2B and community management.
The pivotal moment in her career came when she stumbled upon customer advocacy. "I heard this thing called advocacy and really stepped into it because I had a problem I was trying to solve—why is it so difficult to organize customers? Why are we using the same customers over and over again? This seemed disparate, unorganized."
Liz found herself drawn to the one-on-one relationships with customers that advocacy involved, and this passion led her to work in the platform space and eventually co-found Captivate Collective with Deena, where she is now fully focused on advocacy strategy and methodology.
Deena Zenyk's career path also took some unexpected turns. "My first career and degree were in journalism in the late 90s," Deena shared. However, by the time she finished her degree in the early 2000s, the media landscape had dramatically shifted. "The internet was really a thing, and people were now publishing blogs, and news media was changing." This led her to reconsider her career direction.
Still passionate about journalism, Deena decided to specialize and pursued a graduate degree to gain deep expertise in a particular area. But when her funding ran out, she had to find a job, and the best opportunity at the time was as a copywriter for a technology firm. "I very quickly realized that copywriting was not creative writing. It was a lot of copying and pasting from messaging documents, and that didn’t really excite me."
Instead of leaving, Deena was given a unique opportunity by the CEO of SMART Technologies. "She handed me a cardboard box with some file folders in it and asked me to pursue that information as a program, which became the SMART Showcase Schools program." This role led her to manage the full portfolio of customer advocacy offerings over the next decade.
In 2015, after reaching her potential at SMART Technologies, Deena joined the first market advocacy software provider, a company led by Mark Organ. There, she headed up their center of excellence, focusing on methods, best practices, and consulting. Eventually, she partnered with Liz to co-found Captivate Collective, where she continues to focus on customer advocacy.
Defining the VoC in relation to advocacy
As we delve deeper into the topic of VoC and its connection to advocacy, it's important to first define what we mean by VoC, especially in the context of customer advocacy.
What is VoC?
Liz Richardson kicked off the discussion by referencing a common definition: "Voice of Customer, as defined by Qualtrics, is your customers' feedback about their experiences with and expectations for your products or services."
However, she noted that in the field of customer advocacy, the perspective shifts slightly. "We're really looking for the voice of the customer when it comes to feedback on their experience and their sentiment around your organization, and how that impacts their willingness to collaborate with you on things that extend beyond just buying your products or services."
In other words, in customer advocacy, VoC isn't just about understanding how customers feel about your products; it's about understanding how they perceive your entire organization and their readiness to engage more deeply with it.
The importance of VoC in advocacy programs
Liz highlighted a common pitfall she’s observed: many organizations launch customer programs with big ideas about how customer collaboration can drive sales, marketing, or even product improvements.
Yet, surprisingly, these organizations often skip a crucial step—they don't infuse the voice of the customer into the ideation process itself. "It's almost like they see it as a standalone initiative," Liz said. "We don't approach it necessarily with the same rigor as we might with product ideation."
She pointed out that customer advocacy is still a maturing practice, and as such, many in the field are still learning how to consistently integrate customer voice into the development of advocacy programs.
"Maybe we think it’s a given, because these programs are all about customers, right? We're going to be talking to customers, interacting with customers—isn't that getting their voice?" Liz asked. However, she urged organizations to take a step back and consider how they are truly incorporating customer feedback into the creation of these programs.
Eve Chatfield
Moving beyond personas
Deena Zenyk agreed with Liz and shared an experience from their time working as customer advocacy consultants in 2015. "Whenever we would start an engagement, we would want to know, you know, who's your audience? Who do you work with?" she recounted. The response was often, "Oh, we have persona documents. We'll get those over to you."
But as Deena explained, these persona documents often didn't go far enough. "We would be reading through persona documents, going, okay, this is, you know, Henry, the head guy, and on the persona docs, and that didn’t even scratch the surface of what you really need to know about your customers when you're developing an advocacy program or strategy."
Deena stressed that understanding your customers for advocacy purposes goes "far beyond those funny monikers in those persona docs." It requires digging deeper, beyond roles and titles, to truly grasp who your customers are as people. "The research is just—it's critical to scratch below the surface of how we typically think of the customer in the corporate world and really start to reframe them as not just a customer, but as a real person."
The impact of properly executing VoC work
As we continue exploring the importance of VoC in customer advocacy, it's crucial to understand the tangible impact of doing this work correctly. I asked Liz and Deena to share their experiences and insights on what happens when VoC is genuinely integrated into customer advocacy programs.
Challenging assumptions about customers
Liz Richardson began by acknowledging a common issue: organizations often operate on assumptions about their customers. "There's a lot of assumptions really about who customers are by organizations. And I get it—scale is a real need. Scale is a thing, and so we use levers to make it easier to make decisions. And that's why we have things like personas," Liz explained.
She was quick to clarify that personas are valuable. "We do not knock persona documentation; it is a great starting place."
However, Liz emphasized the risk of relying solely on these tools without digging deeper. "When you don’t dig a little bit deeper, what we have found is that organizations often come to the table with a lot of assumptions about what will or will not resonate or work with their customer base."
She provided an example to illustrate this point. "You might come to the plate and say, 'No, our customers are absolutely not incentivized or motivated by gifts.' While we think gifts should be used very judiciously, they can be tempting and useful when used correctly."
Liz stressed the importance of validating these assumptions directly with customers. "Before you make big decisions that you're basing your whole program strategy on, why don’t we just go ask them? We can take a pause in what we are doing, and we can actually go ask the experts—your target audience—what should be involved in this program."
Customer Marketing Alliance
Infusing VoC into program development
Liz highlighted that this approach applies to all aspects of program development, from branding and tone to understanding what incentives might appeal to customers and identifying gaps in the current program that could be filled. Unfortunately, she noted that this step is often skipped. "People are so confident, or they just have this feeling that they really understand their customers already."
While she acknowledged that customer success teams (CSMs) are valuable resources who often know customers well, Liz reiterated that "there’s really no substitute for going to the source and infusing that voice of customer just like you would with your product, into your customer advocacy program strategy."
Deena Zenyk echoed Liz's sentiments and added that, for a long time, many programs were launched without sufficient collaboration with the target audience. "There was a long period of time where most programs were not being launched in collaboration with that target audience," Deena noted, highlighting the missed opportunities that arise from such an oversight.
Lauren Culbertson
Getting started with VoC work
When it comes to initiating VoC work, it’s crucial to lay a strong foundation.
I asked Deena and Liz to share their insights on best practices for getting started and ensuring that VoC efforts are effective and aligned with organizational goals.
Understanding your target audience
Deena emphasized that the first step in VoC work is understanding who you need to reach. "Our starting point is always a little workshop to understand who it is that we need to reach to infuse that right voice into the program or advocacy strategy ideation process," she explained. This involves narrowing down the focus based on the goals and objectives of the program to ensure that the right voices are brought into the mix.
From there, it’s about determining what you want to learn from these customers. Deena highlighted the importance of maintaining focus when designing surveys or other feedback mechanisms.
"We had to whittle a survey down from many, many questions because we started to get into, 'Well, hey, if we’re deploying a survey, let’s tack on some other questions about the product.' But it’s about keeping the question set in scope, narrow enough and focused enough, so you get good finish rates on that survey."
In addition to surveys, Deena also recommended conducting interviews with key customers. "Figure out who are the absolute Bullseye customers that you can talk to and have an open, honest, and direct conversation with."
The goal is to gather deeper insights that a survey might not capture. She stressed the importance of finding customers who are willing to provide genuine feedback rather than just telling you what they think you want to hear.
Maintaining focus on your program’s north star
Liz expanded on Deena’s points, particularly emphasizing the need to stay focused on the target audience. "It's very important that you have a strategy, a North Star," Liz explained. "What is the main reason you're launching this specific program?" She pointed out that while it might be tempting to broaden your audience or add extra elements to your program, doing so can dilute the effectiveness of your efforts.
Liz advised against expanding the audience or program scope without a clear reason, noting that while it’s easy to get excited about broader feedback, it’s crucial to focus on the audience that will directly impact your program’s success.
"You need to be able to pull out the responses and the data based on those people who are your target audience," she said. This helps avoid muddying the waters with data that, while interesting, might not be relevant to measuring the success of your specific program.
Where advocacy programs often fall short
In our discussion, Liz and Deena touched on potential pitfalls that can cause customer advocacy programs to fall short.
The danger of busyness without purpose
Liz began by highlighting a common issue in advocacy programs—what she referred to as "busy-ness." "You can generate a lot of busy-ness," Liz explained. "You can ask customers to engage in a lot of different things, put a lot of interaction types and content out there. But at the end of the day, how are you going to measure success in that program?"
She warned against creating activities that generate noise but don’t align with the core objectives of the program or the organization's broader goals.
Liz emphasized the importance of focusing on the actual metrics that truly impact the organization. "There’s a lot of good in those small things, but do you know for sure what success is in relation to your organization?" She cautioned against reporting on everything simply to make the program look robust without a clear understanding of what success looks like.
Avoiding the echo chamber
Deena Zenyk picked up on the idea of the "echo chamber" that Eve mentioned, where organizations might only engage with customers who are likely to provide positive feedback.
"I’ve been grappling with that sentiment since I started in customer advocacy," Deena shared, noting that it can water down the impact and agency of customer feedback.
Deena argued that skilled practitioners know how to peel back the layers of what customers are saying, whether through surveys or conversations, to get to deeper, more meaningful insights.
"Even in survey design, you can design surveys to just elicit really good news from a happy audience, or you can design surveys that actually dig deeper." She acknowledged that while advocacy programs might sometimes focus on positive feedback, there’s value in ensuring that the feedback is genuine and not just an echo of what the organization wants to hear.
Balancing value for the organization and the customer
Liz added a forward-thinking point, noting that while organizations are increasingly aware of the need to provide value to customers in advocacy programs, there’s still a gap in measuring that value from the customer’s perspective.
"We tend to focus all of the measurements of success on what the organization gets out of this program," Liz said. She pointed out that while organizations may set the value proposition based on what they think customers want, they often fail to measure whether customers feel they’ve received that value.
Liz mentioned the concept of "customer performance indicators" as a potential area of growth in advocacy programs. This idea involves measuring success not just from the organization’s standpoint but from the customer’s perspective as well.
"As our practice matures, we're going to want to look at measurements of success for the customer themselves," she predicted, suggesting that future advocacy programs will need to better balance the interests of both the organization and its customers.
The future of customer advocacy
As customer marketing and advocacy continue to evolve, many companies are still in the early stages of integrating these practices into their business strategies.
I asked Deena and Liz to share their visions for the future of customer advocacy over the next five years. Their insights suggest that significant changes are on the horizon.
Decentralization and ungated advocacy
Deena began by highlighting a trend toward decentralizing customer advocacy, or as she referred to it, "ungating" the practice.
"We see customer advocacy becoming more and more decentralized," Deena explained. This involves infusing advocacy at multiple points in the customer journey, sometimes even before a deal is closed.
Rather than having a single, centralized advocacy program, organizations are moving towards a portfolio of programs that meet customers where they are in their journey.
Deena emphasized the importance of nurturing relationships and gathering meaningful insights about customers as they progress through their journey with the business. "Using that data to nurture the relationship and move that customer along to the point of activation," she said, is crucial. Activation, in this context, is the stage where the impact of advocacy on the business can start to be measured.
The science of advocacy
Liz Richardson expanded on this by noting a shift from the "art" of customer advocacy to a more scientific approach. "We've seen a lot of art around the practice of customer advocacy. That's really kind of where it's sat," Liz observed.
She pointed out that the field has traditionally been dominated by creative types who excel in relationship-building. However, there's now a growing emphasis on the science of advocacy—using tools and data to measure the effectiveness of these programs.
Liz described a growing desire within organizations to gain a more holistic view of the customer. "The ability of an advocacy program manager to think through the flow of data between different departments, to get a more holistic view of the customer or the customer advocate, is becoming a great desire," she explained.
Currently, customer advocates are often viewed separately from their overall customer journey, leading to disjointed strategies.
Bridging the gap between advocacy and loyalty
One point Liz raised was the need to rethink what advocacy truly means.
"You might have someone who does a million reviews for you and is willing to do every speaking opportunity, but they’re only spending 10k a year with you," she said, contrasting this with customers who may not be publicly referenceable but increase their spend year after year.
This raises the question: who is the greater advocate?
Liz suggested that the lines between B2B advocacy and B2C loyalty are beginning to blur. While B2C loyalty often focuses on increasing spend over time, B2B advocacy has traditionally emphasized public references and relationships.
However, she predicted that these pictures will begin to merge, leading to a more comprehensive understanding of customer loyalty and advocacy.
Scaling up and down simultaneously
Liz also noted an emerging trend where advocacy programs are both scaling up and down simultaneously. "You’re starting to see the technology and the science really reach for that large-scale engagement through technology, across the journey, across platforms," she explained. This "one-to-many" approach aims to infuse advocacy throughout the customer journey.
At the same time, Liz observed a growing recognition of the need for "white glove" programs that provide targeted, personalized experiences. These one-on-one opportunities are crucial for building strong relationships and fostering deep connections with customers.
"We’re starting to see programs scale downward and upward at the same time," Liz remarked, describing it as an interesting dynamic in the field.
Final thoughts
VoC is not just a feedback mechanism but a strategic tool that drives meaningful customer engagement and deepens relationships.
By integrating VoC into the very foundation of customer advocacy programs, organizations can move beyond assumptions, challenge traditional personas, and create initiatives that resonate more authentically with their target audience.
The future of customer advocacy will likely see a blend of art and science, with a more decentralized and holistic approach to customer relationships.
